Things that bug me in the Naruto Fandom

[kiterie]

Not actually in any particular order. I run into this kind of stuff a lot and I'm just like OMG the DRAMA... ugh.

~ Pairing Wars. Why can't people just go about their happy little lives enjoying their own pairing without getting pissy about what somebody who doesn't have anything to do with them likes? Seriously it's just STUPID! I hate people who are all anti-KakaIru because they like KakaRin or KakaYama and then to try and tell me that theirs is canon and more valid or how Kakashi isn't gay blah blah it just makes me want to beat their skulls in. I liked those pairings until I got that repeatedly from them (well I still like KakaYama cuz I've only gotten it once from that fandom) but yeah... it's just something that BUGS ME! I mean my god I have friends in various fandoms and if I did that shit I wouldn't be friends with them now would I? The most annoying one was a KakaRin fan who went off on me because I had a deathfic from Rin's point of view and they made an assumption that was completely off base how I was saying Kakashi didn't care about her... I swear to god it took me forever to get her to understand that wasn't what was being said and THEN she bashed KakaIru... I was just like go away you stupid little twit.... *grrr* There are reasons I almost never write that pairing and she's one of them. I flat out said I hate KakaSasu and would never write it again in the AN of the fic I wrote for Imlikat and none of those fans have given me shit they were just glad I wrote the story.

~ Mary-sues. UGH! It's bad enough we have fucking Sasuke to deal with do people really NEED to make more? I think that's all that needs to be said here. They suck, we know they suck, now just STOP.

~ Self-inserts. I don't care if they use a canon character or an OC when somebody blatantly self-inserts and then gets huffy about how it's 'canon' it just makes me want to smack my head against a wall. It's one thing to relate to a character or take inspiration from real life it's a whole other to be so emotionally invested that you get offended by the slightest little thing.

~ OCs. I'm not talking about the ones who are in there for plot devices and what not. I'm talking about the ones written by people who make them one or both of the above two. The above 2 things bug me enough by themselves but combined? And then an OC on top? Shoot me please.

~ OCxCanon pairings. I'm sorry but if you're going to fucking tell me that Kakashi can't possibly love Iruka because he's in love with your OC who isn't even in the fucking naruto verse I'm going to tell you what a retard you are. I HAVE DONE THIS! At a con no less. I was getting a fanart done for Kakashi and Iruka and this woman tried to start a conversation with me about how awesome Kakashi is and how she writes him with her self-insert OC and I was just like 'oh kill me now' and then she made some remark about how KakaIru didn't make sense to her because he loves her OC and my response was pretty much that's retarded. Sorry but I don't care if it shrinks the fandom slightly by my saying OCxCanon is stupid. It just is and we're all better off with out the OC people. I would rather they pair him with freaking RIN at least that makes some kind of sense.

~ People who bash artists or writers. This seriously bugs me. I mean there is a difference between constructive criticism (which I personally deeply appreciate) and saying shit like "Kakashi isn't gay blah blah blah this is horrible" I don't care what the comment is if it's not constructive it just makes me want to bitch slap the person. Learn to phrase shit in a way that isn't just bitching OR hit the back button and stop reading/looking at it. I don't get flames very often and they've been 'Kakashi isn't gay', 'Kakashi wouldn't be with somebody as ugly as Iruka', and most recently I got bitched at twice because I post stuff on AFF that isn't NC-17 despite the fact that it is perfectly allowable AND had a 'no-sex' and 'WAFF' tag attached... Did they say anything about the fic? NO they left a retarded ass 'Anonymous' comment about how it belongs on FF.net not AFF. I was like 'listen up you fucktards I will post what I want where I want get off it. Read the tags and STFU... well I was nicer. On my front page. I hate things that waste my time.

~ OOCness... It's the fastest way to get on my nerves with a fic. There are people who can pull it off in a believable fashion but they are rare creatures. Making Kakashi a complete and utter asshole who has absolutely no social grace WTF ever takes SKILL and a lot of people screw it up. People other people fanboy/girl over and it just leaves me going o.O why? Seriously there are 'classics' I find utterly stupid that get recced all the time and I just don't get it. It's not something I will ever understand. Yes I believe a skilled writer can make a character do just about anything but... sometimes people give validations for crap and it's still just crap so they come off as 'justifications'. I had a long conversation with somebody over this recently and she said she can accept OOCness for her favorite pairings as long as the writing is good BUT for me that's a part of the whole being good.

~Liking a pairing because it's 'Pretty'. Sorry this one bugs me. I want pairings to make sense, I want their personalities to fit saying you like xpairing because they're pretty together and don't like another pairing because they're not... it's shallow and as a writer it gets on my nerves. It makes me go "oh so if I put two pretty boys on the cover people read it even if it's shit... great... It also makes me think of purple prose for some reason.

~Girly men. This one just bugs me. I'm not very girly emotionally and I don't want to read het in yaoi-guise I want to read yaoi. It's one thing if a character is swishy (can't think of any in Naruto that are off the top of my head) but to make say Iruka girly when he's NOT just grates my nerves.

~Magically lubricating assholes... this is writer and sometimes artist FAILURE and generally gets a 'sigh' from me.

~MPregs. My biggest problem with this in the Naruto world is when they don't use logic. A henge is an ILLUSION so unless you back it up with an explanation I find it fails, switching between male and female... bugs me. Men do not have the parts to carry a baby so what happens to the baby? Illogical. Creating a special race with a jutsu that can carry it... okay but that just strikes me as lame... the only person who has ever carried it off in a fashion I liked was Kita... somehow I don't see this changing any time soon. Also I tend to hate them making the guy all girlie and saying it was the hormones... I've been pregnant. Don't get me wrong I was 'emotional' but it was MY normal emotions only amplified. I didn't break down into tears over little crap, the only time I cried was when I was so frustrated I wanted to scream. When I was pissed I was OMFG PISSED. I threw a PS2 remote because spyro was being frustrating... I threw phones when my family was pissing me off... I was still me just... more so. And I knew when I was being over the top.

~more to come as I think of them.

Comments

[blackalchemist.livejournal.com]

Unfourtunatly, all of these aren't just aplicible to Naruto fandom. They're everywhere, and some people can't pick up on them.
(That said, I can read OOC stories if there is justified reasoning/it's really good writing/it's AU)

[kiterie.livejournal.com]

Yeah I know it's everywhere but well Naruto is where I have to deal with it. The HP fandom I've heard is REALLY BAD about the pairings wars and drama and shit and I avoid it like the plague as a result.

I can't... well I can't 99% of the time. I'm a snob and I HATE OOCness. Or well at least I guess extreme OOCness. It's probably the fastest way to piss me off and make me close a fic. People write Sai and Gaara really OOC a LOT and I get that they're hard to write but ugh either crying like a girl... UGH!

[blackalchemist.livejournal.com]

Not a snob, just particular about what you like.
(Gaara crying like a girl...WTF?)

[kiterie.livejournal.com]

It's just if they're going to be super OOC just make them original characters and stick them in an original world... that's just how I feel. Mostly I've seen it with people who like pairings based on looks... ShikaNeji, GaaraNeji, etc...

I've seen a surprising amount of art an even some fics with that crap. The worst part is it rubs me wrong TWICE over three times if you count the fact that I love Gaara and Sai. They're awesome characters who are seriously under-rated.

[hikari-shiroki.livejournal.com]

I think this list was the result of someone repeteally bugging you with something of the sort.
But it's okay, as you said yourself, being one of those persons that like their own OTPs and endure other pairings with no comments is the best policy.
I can't say I'm with you with all that cos I like mary-sues, OC, OOC, bishounen designs together and mpregs when they are well depicted and go with the storyland or the composition ^^U... Sadly, they are hard to find, but when I do they made my day ^^!

[kiterie.livejournal.com]

It's the result of several people doing such actually. I just needed to get it off of my chest. The whole thing was driving me crazy. I figured I'm safest posting it here where fewer people are likely to get offended by it since it's not HERE that people have done this it's the other sites I belong to.

Honestly I don't care what other people like as long as they don't try to convince me to read it or try to convince me it's so much better than mine. I don't do that to them and they should return the favor. It drives me crazy. I've written pairings I don't like for various reasons but that doesn't mean I'm going to change my mind on them. It's one thing to discuss pairings and why they like x but it's another to shove it down the person's throat as 'I can't believe you don't like x' and 'it's totally better than your pairing'.

I like bishounen I just don't like them acting like girls. I like the androgynous not girlie. Men can cry and be cute... trust me I know I've seen my very manly husband cry and I kid you not he makes 'cute eyes' at me when he wants me to make him coffee... that said he's not girlie and there is a difference and some people just don't get it.

The Mpreg irritation is strictly when they fail which is 99% of the time. Naruto has the most possibility with that one and people still magically manage to FAIL at it. Kita_the_Spaz is the only person who has managed to not fail at it so far. At least of the ones that actually got finished. There were a couple that started and had promise then never finished.

I do hate mary-sues though and OOCness... I just can't put to words why I hate those things so very very much. A little OOC when actually valid and well done is one thing. Think about it though... Sasuke acting like a cheerful fucking teenage girl? It's clearly a failure of the writer to write something a character other than herself. I'm not sure if that one exist but I've seen the equivalent with other characters I just don't read Sasuke.

OCs I stipulated that I don't hate them if they're not Mary-sue self-inserts. There are people who write OCs that I really quite enjoy.

[hikari-shiroki.livejournal.com]

So, all in all you just hate marysues and can deal with the rest is it very well depicted, like me XD.
Well,,, not in Naruto, actually, but I read some marysues on other series that make me thing such character should have been inserted on the series rather than some of the original charas ==U... And I like my own marysues! I just don't share them with the world, cos I'm very positive no one is going to apreciate them XD.
But, don't you do that? privately? have your own chara inserted on a random series?

[kiterie.livejournal.com]

o.O Why would I need to do that? I could just write my original stories or a pairing I like. I don't like Mary-sues in original fiction either not just fanfiction. I HATE Twilight for that exact reason. Maybe it's because I'm a writer but it seriously bugs me.

[hikari-shiroki.livejournal.com]

LOL, just for fun?
Like in a series with all the male charas paired with horrendous girly charas,,, I got the urge to save the poor things of their destiny ==U,,,

[kiterie.livejournal.com]

I don't generally like series like that and then I'd be more apt to pair them with each other than OCs let alone Mary-sues.

[kiterie.livejournal.com]

When I RPed with my best friend and her mom we had self-insert OCs but they weren't mary-sues so I guess that's the closest I came to that.

:)

[dangerprawn.livejournal.com]

Pairing wars.

Fuck that shit.

They are the reason I don't want to write a KakaIruYama fic I have in mind. It would just be me all alone, wanking into the abyss, because folks like either one or the other. ((:/ It bothers me that there aren't any well written fics about solid, loving poly relationships that aren't all about sex.))

Really, some of the best fiction I've read for the fandom are totally off the wall pairings like ShikaNaru that have been pulled off by writers who really put thought into it instead of just assuming that the character's were each other's "one true love".

~*~

Complaint number two: people often don't realize they're writing OOC because they're so young. Borderline Mary Sue. Kakashi is 30. He's a Grown Ass Man and he has been for longer than most of the people writing him have been alive. He isn't concerned with the same bullshit problems 18 year old girls are. And if he is I'm Concerned. Capitol C. Folks a lot of the time don't have the life experience required to write good fiction or they just can't think about what it would be like to look through anyone's eyes but their own. It makes me the saddest of pandas.

~*~

Shitty writing style. I swear. I want to start a 'dangerprawn guide to prose that isn't poo' journal or have some sort of forum for the fandom to talk about How To Structure A Story. People a lot of the time start posting before they're done writing. Which makes for the crappiest style and plot choices. Personally, I like to start with the end, then write the beginning so that the story wraps into a nice package. But, I think that's Asking A Lot. Also, I'm a damn snob.

Re: :)

[kiterie.livejournal.com]

Actaully I know quite a few who like them in a 3-some so you're probably safe there. It's more the KakaRin fans who drive me batshit crazy. I've only met a couple of KakaYama fans who are slightly annoyingly defensive. Most of them are either KakaIru fans who like KakaYama as a secondary pairing or KakaYama fans who are just glad to see their pairing get some acknowledgement... the KakaRin fans though... well their DA group's leader was part of the anti-kakairu club until I pointed out that it was kind of rude and would offend people who might otherwise commission and watch her. There are a couple of KakaYama fans that drive me a bit crazy so maybe I overstated that but it's usually the Rin fans I get it from or see it from. Of the KakaSaku fans *gags*

I have one KakaIruYama that I started but it's quite smutty. ^.^ Not that I'm not for a healthy poly relationship fic I'm just too lazy to write one. So I'd probably read it.

~*~

*nods* exactly and it drives me crazy. I think it helps that I was the same age as Iruka when I started writing KakaIru myself. There are some people who can pull it off but it's like the younger they are the higher the chance is they can't write it.

~*~

I just point them at Ookami's tutorials - Writing Tips and Tricks (http://ookamikasumi.deviantart.com/gallery/24356519)

Re: :)

[dangerprawn.livejournal.com]

Oh. MY. That writing tutorial is...

...I'll be in my bunk.

Re: :)

[kiterie.livejournal.com]

Her writing tutorials are awesome I use them and she coaches me on a lot of stuff too. Kita and I helped her write http://ookamikasumi.deviantart.com/gallery/24356519#/d2itvxb

Re: :)

[dangerprawn.livejournal.com]

Cool beans. I actually read about the differences between male and female conversation in one of my undergraduate classes and have been using it to write male characters and dialogue ever since. My textbook said pretty much the exact same thing, with one addition: When talking to children women tend to build a scaffold for the kid and support them as much as possible -- because their intent is to teach the child to speak. But, men tend to hold kids to a higher standard and require them to speak clearly. They will ask for repetition instead of filling in the blanks for themselves. If you think about it in terms of a family, the mother helps the child learn language in the first place and then the father acts as the bridge to help everyone else in the world understand what the kid is saying. Does that make sense?

Anyhow, writing men talking is so super fun as compared to women. Honestly, I <3 that Kakashi and Iruka are both really blunt in different ways. I try to write Kakashi saying exactly what he means but hiding his true intent with cutting wit and word play, and Iruka doing the same but hiding his true intent with formality and deprecation. Thinking about those things really is very useful and makes it so their conversations can say a ridiculous amount without either of them ever coming out and stating it plainly.

Reading through the tutorials, they really are great. Thankfully, I got a lot of that stuff down pat already, even if I'm too lazy to implement it. She should do one on symbolism and imagery or mood and narrative tone.

Re: :)

[kiterie.livejournal.com]

Yeah though not all women are that way, I'm more of a guy than most guys sometimes. My husband and I both hold high expectations of our daughter though we both also explain things, he however does it more.

It fits their personalities.

Same here, they are fun and there are little things I've noticed. My biggest change is in how I break paragraphs up by the individual.

I never head hopped but I've also gone from writing scenes by different characters to writing the entire story by a single person. Not to say this will be true for all stories but I won't do it without a reason now. I know plenty of published authors who change pov by chapter or scene so my logic for not doing it is more that unless the other POV of view is necessary than the surprise is greater without it.

I'm also far more descriptive than I used to be. I never use what she calls purple prose though. Ever. Even when she thinks it's an appropriate place to use it I just hate the stuff because it breaks up the rhythm in my opinion.

And she's said herself I write emotions and conversation better than her so those haven't changed in the slightest.

[dangerprawn.livejournal.com]

PS. Making any argument for a character's orientation is ridiculous unless their interest in one sex or the other is stated explicitly in cannon. Saying anyone is one orientation or another because of their personality is ignorant.

...but, I just want everyone in the world to be as flamingly bisexual as I am so... I think I'm a little biased.

[kiterie.livejournal.com]

Yeah that one annoys the hell out of me. Don't get me wrong Asuma and Jiraiya and Minato are straight canonly but ya know if somebody wants to write them gay or bi then good for them. Maybe under the right circumstances they'd consider it. *has a JiraMin fic and some MinKashi fics*

Not everyone is bi but a lot of people are and supposedly Kishimoto has said Kakashi is bi (I've heard that a lot) and I don't think he is going to be offended by anyone writing his characters gay or bi given that he's made Sasuke and Naruto kiss, he's done the yaoi no jutsu and other things. So if HE'S not offended by it they have NO FUCKING RIGHT TO TELL ME I CAN'T WRITE SOMEBODY GAY!!! <-it makes her so mad when people say the original author wouldn't like it when he fucking jokes about it like it's not big fucking deal. They are just homophobic little shits who have no right to pretend they know shit about the original author. I'm not writing their characters gay and when they become a published author they can state that their characters are straight if they like and by god I won't write their stupid characters gay.

[alexwhitewell.livejournal.com]

i'm sorry, i know this is supposed to be serious and i agree with much of what you said, but LOL SELF LUBRICATING ASSHOLES. /guilty as charged
though i was 13 then and didn't really know how butt sex worked while attempting to draw it.

[kiterie.livejournal.com]

*laughs* I tend to forgive it in art because a lot of little things can be assumed didn't get drawn in scenes. That or maybe I'm just more forgiving because I can't draw.